Ok if you are thinking of purchasing a Grundfos SQE Pump system for your home,you may be interested to read the transcript below of my ongoing saga of troubleshooting and repairs of my SQE Pump System.
The discussion is with Grundfos Canada's Support Center, the District Sales Manager, marketing, and the Canadian President.
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Aug 3, 2009
Hi
I have a 10 SQE05B-160 Grundfos pump system and the system is not functional.
As is a holiday today I have been unable to reach anyone locally who has availability of parts for a repair.
I am told there is NO repair Program or Exchange Program available for the CU301 controller.
1) Is this correct ?
2) Can I order an advance exchange ? and if so what is the lead time….
3) Do you have an authorized repair/exchange facility in a close proximity to ?
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From: Saleem Rana [mailto:sarana@grundfos.com]
Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: Grundfos CU301 Servicing
Hi Ken,
I apologize for the late response. Just a quick question for you... what is the 'Date Code' on the box? You can find this information underneath the box cover. Thank you.
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Not sure if this is what you want but there was a date stamped on the ribbon cable saying
Tested 09/04/12
I also read the numbers off the mother board
96488122-08-0409-9896
PCB 964-88120- Rev-03
Regards
Ken
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From: Saleem Rana [mailto:sarana@grundfos.com]
Sent: August-07-09 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: Fw: Grundfos CU301 Servicing
Ken,
It looks like this unit was made in year 2004 and week 09. We do offer a 5-year warranty on these units. You are cutting a little short, however, you must take it back to whom you original purchased the unit from in order to claim any sort of warranty. If you do run into any problems, feel free to contact me. Thank you.
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Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 4:17 PM
To: 'Saleem Rana'
Subject: RE: Fw: Grundfos CU301 Servicing
Will do…..
Thank you so so much Saleem
Regards
Ken
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Aug 13, 2009
Hi Saleem
Here is our current situation
We had contacted 2 separate companies to get our CU301 unit repaired/exchanged.
Grayhawk (Hawkesbury)
Pompaction (Pointe Claire, Quebec)
Both said they didn’t do “exchanges” or repairs on these units.
We ended up ordering (Purchasing) a replacement unit as a result from Pompaction (04-Aug-2009)
(Who ordered it from ” you “ ? )
Pompaction
119 boul Hymus
Pointe-Claire, Quebec
H9R 1E5
We originally purchased the pomp/controller unit from Forage St-Denis Inc (in Ile-Perrot, Quebec).
They are a Well drilling company that also sold us/installed the pump when they drilled our well. We didn’t contact them for servicing as they specialize in drilling wells, not in pump servicing.
We have now had the replacement unit installed and our well is functioning properly.
Can we ship you back our defective unit for exchange directly ? (Just provide us a RMA #) (We can even ship it in the original packaging you sent our new unit in !)
Thanking you in advance
Regards
Ken
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Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 8:57 AM
Cc: Robert Senecal
Subject: RE: Fw: Grundfos CU301 Servicing
Hi Ken,
I apologize but we cannot exchange, warranty, or supply end users directly with any product. What you will have to do is, if you do not know who you had purchased the unit from, then you must contact the sales manager for your region. He will know how to take care of your situation. Please contact 'Robert Senecal' @ (450)-437-8738.
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Hi Saleem
We understand you have procedures to follow, and we are very happy with your actions and directions provided to us to help us to resolve this situation
We have left a detailed message with Robert Senecal.
(Unfortunately he is on vacation today)
FYI
As mentioned earlier in the email below, we do know who we purchased the unit from
“We originally purchased the pump/controller unit from Forage St-Denis Inc ( in Ile-Perrot, Quebec).
They are a Well drilling company that also sold us/installed the pump when they drilled our well. We didn’t contact them for servicing as they specialize in drilling wells, not in pump servicing.
We had contacted 2 separate companies to get our well serviced.
Grayhawk (Hawkesbury)
Pompaction (Pointe Claire, Quebec)
Both said they didn’t do “exchanges” or repairs on these units. “
We ended up having to purchase a replacement unit (CU301) as a result !
It is pretty sad that your company offers a warranty on your products and we couldn’t find any local companies to perform an exchange/repair (Let alone under warranty). Even worse we had to pay for a NEW unit as a result. And now we are having difficulty getting the unit exchanged directly from the manufacturer…I.E. A warranty isn’t worth much if you can’t get anyone to perform the service….
Hopefully this is just an exception to the rule, as it is not a good business model to have no one willing to service your equipment . (unless it is to purchase new items only)
I apologize for not contacting Forage St Denis, but it also doesn’t make any sense for us to have them drive the 100KM to our house to pick up a defective unit (That’s already been replaced !) to have them send it back to you for replacement, and similarly, when they receive it back, to have it delivered to us again.
It’s unfortunate, as we wouldn’t be in this situation if the companies we originally contacted would have done the servicing on the unit in question in the beginning. (We originally contacted Pompaction as they were identified as your LOCAL SERVICE DEPOT for your equipment on your web site)
So it looks like instead of this being a low cost, low overhead exercise for all of us
a) we end up paying for a new unit, that should have been repaired/exchanged under warranty.
b) and you now have your sale mgr, yourself and us involved in a multi day exercise to perform an exchange ..
I understand your policy not to sell directly to the public (Retailers Only), but this is a little ridiculous that we
a) tried to use your service outlets advertized,
b) they rejected our request for exchange/repair,
c) and made us purchase New replacements,
d) and we still can’t get the unit replaced through you directly.
At a loss for words…
None the less, you have been more than helpful in this situation, and I am certain that we’ll get it all taken care of once the “powers that be” take the final corrective steps required to get this unit replaced/exchanged.
Have a great weekend !
Best Regards
Ken
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From: Saleem Rana [mailto:sarana@grundfos.com]
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2009 1:41 PM
Cc: Robert Senecal
Subject: Re: Grundfos CU301 Servicing (The saga continues)
Hi Ken,
I very much apologize for having you go through all these procedures. I'll try explaining a few things...
Okay, so this product is a CU301 box, it is also a 'FIeld Warranty' product. Field warranty products do not get repaired, in fact if it is deemed warranty, in other words has manufacturing defect, then the whole unit gets a credit reimbursment.
Now the way this works is that you would take this unit back to whomever you bought this from (Forage), then they would take it back to whom they originally purchased it from. Our sales manager would make his visit, inspect the unit and determine wether it is a manufacturing defect or not. Now if this is the case, then Grundfos would reimburse Forages supplier with a credit for the unit. Forage would then supply you with a new box in return for the unit or have you buy a new one and then reimburse you for it that way. Either way, it is necessary that you would go out and buy a new box regardless, beacuse it is not in our practise to supply anyone with an actual replacement unit.
In this case, I am copying Robert Senecal on these emails, and when he returns from his vacation, he should contact you and he will definetly know how to take care of this situation. Reimbursement will be avaible based on the grounds that the unit failed from a manufacturing defect while the unit is within the warranty period.
I know the process sounds very complicated and unnesssary, however, these are the correct procedures and they must be done this way in order for us to better assist our customers.
If you can, please bring your old CU301 to Forage, or you can wait until Robert Senecal returns from his vacation and hopefully we will all be able to sort this whole ordeal out.
If you have any questions for me until then, please ask. I hope I have claified some pressing questions for you today in this email..
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Hi Saleem
It is clear, sort of….
Ok, under your description,
‘Forage would then supply you with a new box in return for the unit or have you buy a new one and then reimburse you for it that way.”
In our instance although we bought the initial unit from Forage, we purchased a replacement unit from Pompaction (Your Quebec Service Center).
What is making this entire process frustrating is that we asked 2 separate Plumbing and Services centers about exchanges/repairs before we did anything and they all said that they do not perform those operations. I.E. (They only Sell NEW Units)
You keep on telling us that we have to use our original Well driller to exchange the unit ( that he doesn’t support) with someone he purchased it from 4 years ago. Note: FYI I was the one who specifically requested your SQE PUMP design ….
Now, on the other hand, if you told us to return it to Pompaction, that would make sense, as they were the ones who sold us the replacement, and they would be in a position to provide us credit.(Unfortunately, as I mentioned earlier, they have already told us that they don’t do repair/exchanges on your CU301s)
I guess what I really don’t like about this is that you are asking us to get our unit repaired by taking it back to the original person whom we purchased the unit from 4 years ago. We don’t want to have to do business with a well driller (for PLUMBING repairs and service) . It’s not their specialty, and for that matter we have already gotten our system repaired by ANOTHER servicing company (Pompaction).
All we want to do at this point is SHIP the box to someone who will provide a replacement that is due. It is not correct for you to require us to go back in history to trace down who you originally sold it to. If you know who (Forage) bought the unit from, then tell us to ship it to them if that is really what you want. It makes absolutely no sense for us to contact Forage for anything at this point in time to perform any service whatsoever for any reason. They drilled our well and sold us the pump. End of Story ! We should not have any requirement to use their services whatsoever for repair of your equipment. We should have the right to choose who services your equipment.
This is obviously not the standard method employed by you to perform corrective action for Field warranty products.
We are just asking that you apply some logic towards getting this situation resolved.
I.E. Assume for our sake that our original seller is no longer in existence. What would you have us do to get our unit replaced ?
We have the replacement box, packing materials, Stamps…everything we need to return the defective unit for repair/replacement.
Telling us that it needs to be
a) Shipped to our original seller
b) Shipped to his original purchaser (your dealer)
c) to your sales rep to authorize a repair back
d) to provide a credit (to your dealer)
e) to order a replacement (for my original seller)
f) to ship to your dealer
g) to ship it to my original seller
h) to ship it back to us
may be your Field Warranty Procedure….but I think, just maybe, it might be a little more efficient and intelligent for us to
a) Ship the defective box back to you.
(Your Original Retailer, or your sales rep, or repair depot, or anywhere you want !)
b) You ship us a replacement box.
I.E. If you want your Sales rep to see it we can ship it to him directly….
( it just makes no sense to get multiple parties involved at this stage to ship this defective box all around the province (Quebec & Ontario) before it gets back to you…..)
We will have still fulfilled all your obligations with respect to your dealers as the replacement process was facilitated by them (Pompaction).
The only difference is that the originator (Shipper) of the defective box, in this instance is us, versus the dealer or Pompaction, or forage etc….
Note: Keep in mind we actually tried to use Pompaction in the first instance and they said they didn’t perform this service(Repair/Exchange).
Make sense ?
Ken
P.S. Looking forward to your call Robert….
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From: Robert Senecal [mailto:rsenecal@grundfos.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 1:32 PM
Cc: 'Saleem Rana'
Subject: RE: Grundfos CU301 Servicing (The saga continues)
Good afternoon,
What was date of the installation by Forage St-Denis?
Best regards,
Robert Senécal,ing.
District sales Manager
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Hi Robert
Forage St-Denis completed the install on/about 30-June-2004 .
Regards
Ken
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From: Robert Senecal [mailto:rsenecal@grundfos.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2009 3:50 PM
Cc: sarana@grundfos.com
Subject: RE: Grundfos CU301 Servicing (The saga continues)
Good afternoon,
The CU301 is out of warranty! The warranty on this product is 5 years from the date code March 2004 or the latest from the date of installation.
The warranty expired on June 30 2009 on the controller. Your request arrived on August 3rd 2009, therefore your warranty was expired, when you contacted us about the failure of the controller CU301.
There is no need to send the controller back to Grundfos or the installer, or a service center. The CU301 is not under warranty anymore, so you have to pay for a replacement.
Best regards,
Robert Senécal,ing.
District Sales Manager
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From: Ken
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 12:13 AM
To: 'Robert Senecal'Cc: 'sarana@grundfos.com'
Subject: RE: Grundfos CU301 Servicing (The saga continues)
Hi Robert
Without Predjudice
I appreciate your attention to detail, and the identification of the closeness of the dates in question. This information was provided earlier and in my discussion with Saleem, I was led to believe that the unit would be accepted by you ” Grundfos” as a warranted item.
( “If you do run into any problems, feel free to contact me”)
I would greatly appreciate your taking a more positive customer support approach to this situation.
I believe that I have been both honest and forthcoming with you and would expect the same consistent treatment from Grundfos Canada in return.
If you would take the time to read through the correspondence below in its entirety I believe it will be informative and clearly communicate what has transpired to date. If you are interested we could also discuss at exactly what month the unit in question started to exhibit intermittent failure conditions and what was done to extend its operating life up until it was reported to Grundfos Canada directly.
I seriously believe that Grundfos Canada & your president (Simon Feddema) holds customer support/satisfaction as a key factor in it success, and such an abrupt denial of warranty after leading me to believe otherwise is unwarranted and uncalled for. I doubt highly that your peers Roger, Shawn or Marc would be so quick to put aside a warranty request such as this. Similarly I am certain that Frank Care is more interested in further developing Business and Marketing initiatives rather than dealing with negative press about Grundfos Customer Support issues.
I know all of us do not want to see this develop into an escalating, time consuming, Customer “Nightmare” from Hell scenario where a little common sense and kindness can solve this issue to our mutual satisfaction without further delay or hardship.
I await your reconsideration of this request pending further escalation of this incident.
RSVP
Best RegardsKen
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From: Ken
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 3:42 PM
To: 'Robert Senecal'Cc: 'sarana@grundfos.com'
Subject: RE: Grundfos CU301 Servicing (The saga continues)Importance: High
Hi Robert
We would appreciate a response to our request, or for you to provide us with contact information in order to escalate this request.
We will initiate escalation tomorrow ourselves should we not hear further from you today.
Regards Ken
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From: Ken
Sent: Thursday, August 20, 2009 7:07 PM
To: 'fcare@grundfos.com'Cc: 'rsenecal@grundfos.com'
Subject: Service and Support Issues
Hello Frank Care
My name is Ken
I am sorry to contact you under this situation, but I feel that the actions being taken on behalf of one of your companies District Sales Managers (Robert Senécal) in providing warranty support is less than what I would deem appropriate customer support.
I have appealed to Robert on several occasions to reconsider his decision but he has yet to respond to our follow-up requests to date.
As a consequence, I would like to appeal to you to review the warranty request issue in order to enable us to be in a better position to resolve this ongoing warranty claim.
I recognize how difficult it is to establish a brand and develop a strong reputation for customer service and support and I would not want this issue to tarnish the reputation of the product in question, or your company’s reputation for standing behind the products it sells.
I am certain Robert is an outstanding individual and representative of your company, but possibly in this instance he may have acted abruptly in rendering his decision with respect to our claim.
I have attached a copy of the correspondence to date on the subject issue and would appreciate your support in putting this issue to rest without further delay.
Should you not be the appropriate individual in this regard to ask for support from I would kindly ask that you forward this email to an appropriate contact without delay or to put us in contact with that individual accordingly.
Thanking you in advance for your support.
Regards
Ken
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From: Frank Care [mailto:fcare@grundfos.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 8:56 AM
Ken, I have reviewed the communications to date and have also spoken to the Service Supervisor, Jonathan Bocquet, who has been involved in this matter. Unfortunately, the product that failed was out of the allowable warranty period of 60 months and Robert was correct in declining warranty. I will look into the details of this claim and come back to you shortly.
Best Regards,
Frank
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From: Ken
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 1:55 PMTo: 'Frank Care'Cc: 'jbocquet@grundfos.com'
Subject: RE: Service and Support IssuesImportance: High
Hi Frank
Without Prejudice
I appreciate your looking into this claim on our behalf.
I must admit that Saleem was extremely cooperative and provided us with the details of your return process, as well as to offer to accept the warranty.
I had been in the customer support business for over 30 years and was quite surprised by both your defined process for warranty claims, as well as the abruptness of Robert’s interfacing with us.
Having Robert engage in the process after 16 days of ongoing discussion with Saleem only to have him reverse the decision on warranty was quite disconcerting. (Keep in mind that we had previously provided Saleem with both the manufacturing information, as well as a copy of our original Dated Invoice from our installer)
We were never asked when our problems started to occur and we have been 100% upfront and honest with our dealings with your company.
In reviewing your companies Sustainability Report 2008 (Carsten Bjerg) it is clear that you can be proud of the products you have manufactured in so much as they have exhibited a failure rate of in the order of .63%. The only area of note in his report was that Complaint handling was an area in need of improvement.
I think we are both aware that customer satisfaction is an area where, in this instance, improvement can also be made and that the flexibility of your organization ( to breach this (30 day) window for warranty is well within its reach and normal operating standards ) as indicated by the willingness of Saleem to accommodate it during our earlier discussions. Similarly, your documented process allows for a 6 month period after the 60 month manufacturing date where actual install dates are not available. (I.E. Sept 2009) in our instance.
I do not believe we are asking for anything not commonly offered by your company, and for that matter would even go as far to say I would be surprised to hear that you have ever “not accepted” a claim so close as this to the Warranted dates, and certainly never with an intermittent product, that actually had failed prior to warranty expiration as in our case.
I am continuing to be confused, as during my past tenure at an Executive level at the Globe and Mail Newspaper , we always encouraged our employees to be empowered to make decisions and refrain from having to escalate matters (as with escalation comes further discontentment and less satisfactory results for all parties concerned).
I have reviewed your history with the BBB and your record appears clear at this time. As per their recommendations they recommend my escalation to your Presidential levels prior to initiating a complaint with them.
I await your further feedback today before further updates/escalation to
a) Canadian President (Simon Feddema)
b) North American President (Jes Munk Hansen)
c) Global President (Carsten Bjerg)
d) BBB
e) Blog, Twitter, etc…(Social networking)
f) GoldHawk (Consumer Rights)
g) Small Claims Court
Regards
Ken
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From: Frank Care [mailto:fcare@grundfos.com]
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 2:56 PM
Subject: RE: Service and Support Issues
Ken, Can you please forward a copy of your 5 year registration form for your CU301/Pump unit. This would have been provided to you by the installing dealer after the installation of the pump system.
Thanks,Frank
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From: Ken
Sent: Friday, August 21, 2009 5:36 PMTo: 'Frank Care'
Subject: RE: Service and Support Issues
Frank
I don’t have any registration form.
I have the copy of the invoice.
(Already supplied)
I also have the Sticker from the Original Box if that is of any use to you…
(Attached)
Is there anything else you want me to look for ?
Product Numbers 96438895
Serial # 9013
V-No 03
P.c. 0411
Ken
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From: Ken
Sent: Saturday, August 22, 2009 9:28 AM
To: 'sfeddema@grundfos.com'
Subject: FW: Service and Support IssuesImportance: High
Hi Simon
Without Prejudice
I apologize for bringing this issue to your attention but to date I have not been able to gain what I deem an acceptable level of support from your Canadian Organization, and I would appreciate your looking into this matter in more detail on my behalf.
Below is a copy of the correspondence to date with various members of your staff referencing this issue.
If nothing else, it may help you to identify weaknesses in your internal processes, that have allowed this situation to continue on as long as it has.
I think one thing for certain, it that the overall corrective warranty process from an outside perspective seems overly complex and difficult to manage from an external customer standpoint.
Thanking you in advance
Regards
Ken
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From: Frank Care [mailto:fcare@grundfos.com]
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 3:40 PM
Subject: RE: Service and Support Issues
Ken, The 5-year warranty needs to be registered to get the 60 months warranty and this needs to be done upto 60 days after the date of installation; Otherwise, the standard warranty applies which is 30 months.
The dealer may have done this already on your behalf, but they should have provided you with a copy. This comes back to your dialogue with Saleem regarding ourr procedures for warranty claims; The failed unit should be taken back to the installing dealer for warranty evaluation.
The dealer, Forage St-Denis Inc, is one of our registered Grundfos dealers and is required to process the warranty evaluation regardless of whether he is a well driller or pump service shop.
In regards to the "warranty" decision you mention below there was no "reversal" as you say by Robert as Saleem had not made any guarantees of approving the warranty, he had simply provided the procedures we outline for making a warranty claim.
Regards,Frank Care
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From: Ken
Sent: Monday, August 24, 2009 8:48 PM
To: 'Frank Care'Cc: 'sfeddema@grundfos.com'
Subject: RE: Service and Support Issues
Hi Frank
Re: The 5-year warranty needs to be registered to get the 60 months warranty and this needs to be done up to 60 days after the date of installation; Otherwise, the standard warranty applies which is 30 months. The dealer may have done this already on your behalf, but they should have provided you with a copy.
1) Would you be kind enough to look up your records and tell me now before I engaged in a potentially fruitless endeavor ?
I would really love to know if you are going to take the step to refuse warranty because your dealer (Apparently) didn’t process paperwork on my behalf properly…..
Note: The New unit that I just purchased, also came with no warranty registration paperwork of any kind…..Can you please provide me with a copy of that paperwork so I can send it in ?
God forbid this new unit that was just purchased doesn’t get registered and I run into this problem yet again….
2) Warranty Evaluation….Holly Cow..this is probably a entirely new can of worms I probably don’t want to open……Lets skip it for now…..
(I would think that the photographs depicting the specific states of the controller, as well as the comprehensive diagnostic results (including but not limited to pressure transducer voltage measurements, line voltage measurements etc.), sent in the original email “would provide sufficient details to evaluate the unit for warranty consideration)
3) OK so let’s say for an instant that by some miracle my dealer/installer sent in the registration on my behalf without providing me a copy….
According to the discussion we had earlier you mentioned that
The product that failed was out of the allowable warranty period of 60 months and Robert was correct in declining warranty.
If this is still the case why are you sending me back to the beginning of the cycle we started on Aug 3rd, if you are only going to provide the same response that you have already provided ?
Let me just re-iterate what I have said earlier of which you have not yet responded.
I think we are both aware that customer satisfaction is an area where, in this instance, improvement can also be made and that the flexibility of your organization ( to breach this (30 day) window for warranty is well within its reach and normal operating standards ) as indicated by the willingness of Saleem to accommodate it during our earlier discussions.
Similarly, your documented process allows for a 6 month period after the 60 month manufacturing date where actual install dates are not available. (I.E. Sept 2009) in our instance.
I do not believe we are asking for anything not commonly offered by your company, and for that matter would even go as far to say I would be surprised to hear that you have ever “not accepted” a claim so close as this to the Warranted dates, and certainly never with an intermittent product, that actually had failed prior to warranty expiration as in our case.
4) On the other hand if you are willing to accept this unit under warranty lets continue…
One of the options presented was to contact your District Sale Manager in lieu of the original Distributor (Installer) to discuss further steps to effect repair/warranty exchange/credit….
How shall we proceed….?
Best Regards
Ken
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From: Simon Feddema [mailto:sfeddema@grundfos.com]
Sent: Tuesday, August 25, 2009 3:37 PM
Subject: RE: Service and Support Issues
Without Prejudice
I have read most of the documentation sent back and forth between yourself and Grundfos and thought I would make the following statements. Grundfos Canada prides itself in working with our customers, growing our business and providing solutions to the Canadian market that we believe is second to none.
Customer Service is critical to this success, however, agreeing to every complaint and perceived Grundfos error by our customers is just not always possible. Our standard warranty is 24 months from date of installation or 30 months from date of manufacture. In Canada we have extended this standard warranty on the SQE product to 60 months from manufacture or if the product is registered with us we will go to 60 months from installation date.
In reviewing the many emails it appears there is misunderstanding on both sides of the conversation and hopefully, we can agree to a solution that is acceptable to you as well as Grundfos.
As I understand the issue and time-line the following occurred:
1. August 3rd, 2009: You sent in a request to "troubleshoot" and solve a failure in your system of an 10 SQE05B-160 with CU301 controller.
2. August 7th: Our service coordinator Saleem Rana responded (after some correspondence with yourself) that the CU301 date code was 2004, week 09 and that the warranty was cutting it short under our 5 year plan. He indicated in the mail that you should return the defective unit to the company you purchased it from to proceed with any sort of warranty claim. (The reason we do this is the "training" we provide for residential products is done at the well driller / installer level. Our service depot's do not deal with residential products and we have changed our website to make this more clear for the future. The service depot, as listed on the website, handle our commercial, industrial and municipal type products. Each service depot is listed by what product they can service).
3. August 13: You responded to Saleem that you did not want to return the product to the well driller from which you purchased the product, but contacted another dealer and a service depot. In that note you state that these accounts would not repair your CU301. You then indicated that you purchased another CU301 controller from Pompaction. My question is why would you do this versus follow the instructions from our Service coordinator, Saleem? It really does not matter if you believe the well driller can not help you, we did ask you to do this. In your note, you now want a full warranty replacement on the CU301.
4. August 14: Saleem replies that in order to now get a warranty our District Sales Manager
responsible for Pompaction, Mr. Robert Senecal must approve the warranty. You replied with frustration, which I understand, however by not following our request initially it became something that became more complicated than necessary.
5. August 19: Our Sales Manager, Robert Senecal corresponded with you and based on your emails determined that the product was installed about June 2004. That means the product was made in March 04 and installed in June 04 - both dates well beyond our 5 year warranty window. In this case Robert declined warranty. The reason that Saleem indicated you were cutting warranty short is that he assumed the product was registered since you used Grundfos pump installer.
6. August 20: You sent a note to Frank Care outlining your concerns. He responded by double checking with yourself if the product is registered with ourselves. We determined it was not. This means in order to honor your request we would be giving warranty on something made about 66 months ago and installed 62 months ago (but not registered with Grundfos).
7. August 22: You now have escalated the emails to myself. If I have misunderstood the chain of events (simplified due to the length of emails) please let me know. What I would like to state is that it seems we both have made something that should have been simple rather complex. In order to facilitate a solution I am willing to partially reimburse you for the cost of the CU301 with a cheque in the amount of $200 CAD. If this is not acceptable I will then have to deny warranty based on the information I have summarized above.
Best regards
Simon Feddema President GRUNDFOS Canada Inc.
GRUNDFOS Canada Inc. 2941 Brighton Road L6H 6C9 Oakville, ON Canada 1-905-829-9533 / 1-800-644-9599
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From: Ken
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 3:42 AM
To: 'Simon Feddema'Cc: 'Frank Care'Subject: RE: Service and Support Issues
Dear Mr. Feddema
I must tell you I appreciate your taking the time to review this issue, and the thoroughness of your review.
The only areas that are not completely accurate are the question/statement you asked in point 3&4 of which I will clarify, and Warranty Dates 5.
3. August 13: You responded to Saleem that you did not want to return the product to the well driller from which you purchased the product, but contacted another dealer and a service depot.
In that note you state that these accounts would not repair your CU301. You then indicated that you purchased another CU301 controller from Pompaction. My question is why would you do this versus follow the instructions from our Service coordinator, Saleem? It really does not matter if you believe the well driller can not help you, we did ask you to do this. In your note, you now want a full warranty replacement on the CU301.
4. August 14: Saleem replies that in order to now get a warranty our District Sales Manager responsible for Pompaction, Mr. Robert Senecal must approve the warranty. You replied with frustration, which I understand, however by not following our request initially it became something that became more complicated than necessary
The short answer is that we had ordered a replacement unit on August 4th, but only received the initial reply from your company on August 7th to our email query.
i.e. We had not received any instructions from your company at the time the order was made. It was only 3 days later(after the fact) when you replied to our initial query.
This was detailed in our original email to Saleem on 13th of Aug 2009 (See reference to Date Aug 4th)
5. August 19: Our Sales Manager, Robert Senecal corresponded with you and based on your emails determined that the product was installed about June 2004. That means the product was made in March 04 and installed in June 04 - both dates well beyond our 5 year warranty window. In this case Robert declined warranty. The reason that Saleem indicated you were cutting warranty short is that he assumed the product was registered since you used Grundfos pump installer.
Actual CU301 Lifeline
Actual Detailed Time line
May 8th, 2009 pm
· we experienced a failure of the controller where we would see a red light on the controller box. (No Water)
· After repeated efforts (Power Re-cycling) the unit would always have the (Red) indicator light.
· Downloaded Technical Parts manual from Grundfos
· We powered the breaker off for the evening, and when we restarted the unit the following day a.m. it powered up properly and functioned until
August 3rd
· We had a hard failure and were unable to return the unit to normal operating condition.
· We reviewed your training tapes and Troubleshooting manual.
· We reviewed your web site and found out about Pompaction (Service Depot) and also contacted a local plumbing dealer (30km away) who we had seen was a dealer of your equipment .I felt more comfortable dealing with your “Service Depot” or a professional plumbing shop than the (Well Driller)
· We contacted Pompaction for a quotation for a CU301 but were told they had no stock and it would take approx 1 week for a new unit to be delivered. We told them we were contacting another plumber to see if we could receive stock earlier, but we would phone them back the following day to place an order
· We sent you an email detailing the problem scenario and asking for your recommendations.
August 4th
· The local plumber contacted us and also reviewed the troubleshooting we had done and confirmed in their opinion that the CU301was defective. They told us they could deliver a unit the following day, as a price $200 more than Pompaction.
· We ordered a replacement from Pompaction.
· Pompaction ordered a CU301 from your facility (Jon Gross ref:3681064488)
August 5th
· Grundfos Shipped unit to Pompaction via Purolator PIN DYL500001888
August 7th
· Pompaction Shipped NEW unit to us.
· We received your initial reply to our email query, at which time we found out that our unit was (apparently) under warranty.
August 8th
· New CU301 arrived and was installed (Functioned without error)
· Decided to wait a few days to make sure it was reliable before making arrangements to ship back the old unit…
August 13th
· Requested authorization to return defective unit directly to you.
Summary
1) As we had already ordered a replacement unit before you had instructed us to take it back to our initial dealer, we were trying to ‘Simplify” the process for all concerned and that is the reason we requested (in much detail I might add) to return the defective unit directly to you.
2) What we were asking for was for a replacement unit to be supplied.
(i.e. in effect providing us a spare in anticipation of our next failure)
Supplementary Questions
1) I would like to ask, if we can be assured that the unit we have just purchased is under a 5 year warranty (without registration) as there were no forms included with the unit from Pompaction ?
2) Similarly, should this NEW unit fail, should it be returned to Pompaction ? You have indicated that they are not for residential.
3) In lieu of the above “updated” information could I be so bold as to ask that you reconsider your position with reference to this claim ?
Best Regards
Ken
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ken
Sent: Wednesday, August 26, 2009 4:18 PM
To: 'Simon Feddema'Cc: 'Frank Care'
Subject: RE: Service and Support Issues (Update)
Update: To Install Date…
Upon further review of our Photographs of our home build and the CU301 controller taken on June 29th, 2004 there was no Electrical Wiring connecting to the unit. (I.E. Installation was not yet completed)
Similarly, there was still a hose connected supplying water from an attached residence on July 21th, 2004 indicating no water was available at that time.
I.E. Actual Installation completion date was after July 21st, 2004.
Of Note: We did not move from Ottawa into the residence until Sept 25 2004.
Regards
Ken
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ken
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 10:08 AM
To: 'Simon Feddema'Cc: 'Frank Care
Subject: RE: Service and Support Issues (Reply Requested)
Dear Mr. Feddema
As requested by you
“If I have misunderstood the chain of events (simplified due to the length of emails) please let me know. “
I have provided updated information concerning the chain of events as listed. With reference to the install date below, I should also add that in Quebec the last 2 weeks of July are deemed a construction holiday and all further activities on our property were halted until August 2nd .
This would have put the completion for the installation at the earliest of Aug 2nd 2004.
It is unfortunate that your dealer/my installer did not fill out the associated documentation at the time which would have solidified the date in question.
None the less, the timeline in question already had failures occurring months earlier.
I personally do not think it appropriate that we should be penalized for the lack of registration information being provided to you from the dealer/installer, as this activity is conducted between your dealers/installers and yourself independent of our involvement.
None the less I await your further consideration of the issue with this updated information.
Regards
Ken
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Ken
Sent: Thursday, August 27, 2009 8:56 PM
To: 'Simon Feddema'Cc: 'Frank Care'; 'jesmunkhansen@grundfos.com'
Subject: Service and Support Issues Grundfos Canada (Reply Requested)
Importance: High
Without Prejudice
Dear Mr. Feddema
I had hoped to have a response by this time.
I believe I have addressed your area of biggest concern
Why replacement equipment was purchased from Pompaction ?
I felt using your advertized (WEB Site) Canada Service Depots was appropriate while not having any response from your support department Saleem during said (3 day) period.
I cannot answer why “our” dealer/installer did not process the pre-requisite registration paperwork except to think that it was possibly his first installation , and possibly without training, as I was under the impression that we had introduced him to your company/equipment. (You could probably verify this from your records)
We hope that you will concur that the obstacles introduced by this warranty request are not ones introduced by ourselves, and consequently we feel that your providing only partial compensation, is lacking in fairness to us.
Your comment
Customer Service is critical to this success, however, agreeing to every complaint and perceived Grundfos error by our customers is just not always possible.
Is a fair statement, and I would expect your customers would understand if you were to identify where their perceptions were in error. I am a great believer that if two parties have a misunderstanding and or disagreement, and they are of sound mind and body that they can be solved with minimal effort through bi-directional discussion without escalation.
As we have provided feedback to your request but not had any response on your part we have little recourse but to escalate this issue further.
We look forward to your (or delegate) prompt response so that we can bring this issue to a permanent close.
Regards
Ken
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Simon Feddema [mailto:sfeddema@grundfos.com]
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 2:34 PM
Re: Service and Support Issues Grundfos Canada (Reply Requested)
I have reviewed your information and have to restate my last comment from the prior mail. "What I would like to state is that it seems we both have made something that should have been simple rather complex. In order to facilitate a solution I am willing to partially reimburse you for the cost of the CU301 with a cheque in the amount of $200 CAD. If this is not acceptable I will then have to deny warranty." I sense this will not be acceptable to you, but I will process the cheque request next week and consider the mater closed. As far as we are concerned we have been more than fair as the product is over 5 years old and past our warranty program end date.
Best regards
Simon Feddema President GRUNDFOS Canada Inc.
GRUNDFOS Canada Inc. 2941 Brighton Road L6H 6C9 Oakville, ON Canada 1-905-829-9533 / 1-800-644-9599
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Sept 16, 2009
No Check received to date...
Escallation continues
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